This is an episode that was recorded back in July, but I’ve been saving it for just the right time, and lo and behold, here it is! Brock Heasley of “Superfogey’s” fame, and Brian Anderson of “Dog Eat Doug” join me for a discussion on what’s appropriate fodder for comedy, and if there are lines we shouldn’t cross as writers and artists. They have great things to say about this subject, and it was a lot of fun to talk to these two cartoon geniuses. Be sure to check out their sites and follow them on Twitter!
I’ve got a new email address…send me your comments and suggestions at talltaleradio@gmail.com!
Episode 53 – The Lines of Comedy: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download
I did a comic about a dysfunctional men’s group called Prime-Rib and dealt with Christian culture much of the time. I finally gave it up and went a completely different direction with my new strip because I didn’t feel it could get anywhere syndication-wise with it. Talking about religion too much just gets in the way of laughs most of the time. I don’t really miss doing it as it was limiting too much on where I could go ultimately. Here is a link to my old strip. http://www.liltoon.com/primerib
Another fine, fine episode, Tom . . . and Brock and Brian.
This episode was especially interesting to me since I intentionally keep my own work in the G-rated range. Sometimes I stray into PG territory if a joke demands it, although, I have a character who smokes a cigar, so apparently it’s all R-rated now, lol.
I generally refrain from profanity, etc. in my own life, so putting rude content in my comic would just come across as forced. In fact, mentally combing through my body of work, I don’t think I’ve ever even used those #%@$ swear symbols in my comics.
Plus, there are just too many comics out there now that use profanity/crudity for the sake if it: for every Penny Arcade or Questionable Content (that actually seem to use profanity and crudity with a certain amount of finesse . . . usually), there are 1,000+ other comics that toss it in for the shock value, or even just to copy PA and QC, thinking that swearing/crudity alone = funny. So, they use it en masse to get noticed or for attention, but ultimately it’s to make up for the fact they aren’t really that talented.
What really gets me is that some of these same people claim the family-friendly folk are the untalented ones for censoring themselves. Which begs the question, if you’re personally choosing to do something, how can it be censorship?
I’ve always felt that setting limits and working within those constraints can make for better results than just letting it all hang loose.
Great show Tom!!!
This has been one of the better podcasts that I’ve heard in a while.
Just to comment on this particular show: I really like this topic and found this show to be both entertaining and inspiring. It is something that I deal with personally in my own comic, which is, do I cross the line I setup for myself to deliver a gag, or do I stick to my guns and work harder to be funny while staying away from certain topics and language.
I especially enjoyed Brock’s candid discussion about how his beliefs affect his writing. I feel as though people who are willing to admit that they are morally opposed to gratuitous foul language and the flippant disregard for what others might hold dear are rare and I applaud him for that.
-James
James – Thanks a lot for that, man. You’ll notice that several times I prefaced my comments with the acknowledgment that most people probably disagree with me. I still think that’s true, so I really appreciate you raising your voice in support.
This was one of my favorite shows of all time. As one who does use profanity and all manner of dirty words in his strip, I was interested to hear what the otherside had to say. I totally respect and understand Brock’s position, and being a fan of his strip, I would never want him to deviate from it one iota.
My position on the subject has always been this: The characters in my strip are much like the folks I grew up with. Those folks, myself included, were prone to swearing. The fact that my characters swear tends to make them more real, at least to me, and to my readers.
I do have some very loose guide lines for myself regarding language:
1. Not all of the characters swear, and not all of the characters swear in the same way. I’ve worked to develop character-specific voices for the characters and that dictates the type of language they use. Chippy is probably the worst offender, peppering his sentences liberally with four letter words in the most casual manner, while Judy the duck has to be REALLY angry in order to swear.
2. I try not to let the humor rely on the use of the f bomb, and if it does, I try to layer in a few more other gags to make up for it.
3. Believe it or not (and I’m sure many of you don’t) I don’t go out of my way to make the characters swear. What you read in the strip is what I hear the characters saying in my head, albeit edited for brevity. If you have the stomach and patience to step through my archives, you will find that many strips have no swearing in them at all.
The one thing I do disagree with Brock on is the direction in which the line is shifting: I believe that in newspaper strips, the line is pretty close. You can’t joke about ANYTHING anymore. Pick up the recently released Complete Bloom County collection and flip through it a bit. See how many strips you can find that would not be printable in modern papers. You will be astonshed at the final number. Yes things have loosened up on Cable and the internet, but it seems to me it’s tightening up everywhere else.
Feels so weird to be talking about this again. For Tom, Brian and myself this was about 3 months ago!
John, I totally get where you’re coming from. Don’t agree, but I get it. And I respect the effort you make to not swear for the sake of swearing. Approaching it from an artistic standpoint doesn’t make much difference to me and the particular kind of reader I am, but I acknowledge the value of doing that and respect you immensely for it.
As far as the shifting line goes…I think our discussion meandered a bit and so it’s not always clear that we weren’t always talking about comics. More to the point, I agree that what syndicated comics will and will not allow is a bit ridiculous at this point. Still, comics like Pearls Before Swine (and…uh, is there another?) do seem to get away with a few things, but I agree that it’s nothing like what it used to be.
To me, that’s both good and bad. A part of me is grateful that there’s at least one line that’s going in the other direction, and a part of me thinks that the ridiculousness of those who are in charge of that line isn’t exactly helping my cause. Moral are, overall, shifting though. I don’t think that can be denied.
I think this is a touchy subject. I think every artist has the right to input a little part of themselves into his work. It’s then a matter of judging who your target audience is and adjusting accordingly. There are so many comics or tv shows or musicians that I could name that seem to go screaming over that line of good taste just for shock value. Those are the folks that are ruining it for all of us.
The bottom line is we’re one big melting pot and where some people find humor, others are offended. It’s one thing to say “if you don’t like what i say, don’t read it.” But the reality gets blurred when you start looking out for your kids. I can’t stop them from getting on the internet no matter how hard I try. It’s everywhere. Do I think Family Guy or Cock N Bull or Eminem is going to ruin their lives? Hell no. Do I want them to watch/read/listen to them at their age? Nope. So there’s the conundrum for me.
Personally I get a laugh at off-color humor as long as it’s not a barrage. But I have the ability to look away and the common sense not to get offended by someone else’s freedom of expression. But when you toss my kids in that mix, it’s a whole different story for me.
Wow! Real discussion! We need to do these types of shows more often.
Brian P: Checked out your strip…pretty darn cool! I think you’re right that it wasn’t really syndication material, but there IS a market out there for churches, I would think. I wonder if there’s a way to get something religiously themed into those types of papers…if it was something that really called to you, it might be worth checking out.
Danny: A cigar smoker in your strip? You heathen!
I like your points…the question has always been “is it appropriate for the material.” There are times that the f-bomb, just like sex or nudity, has a powerful impact. (The example I always us is in the movie “Witness,” with Harrison Ford…there’s a scene where he comes across the Amish Kelly McGillis giving herself a sponge bath…we see her topless before him in the kitchen. She HAS to be topless for this scene to work, and we have to see it…she’s Amish…this is a HUGE moment. We have to see the temptation, the revealing of her normally utterly clothed body…it’s completely necessary. Of course, there are a billion examples of when breasts are shown gratuitously, but that’s another story. 
And the same goes for f-bombs…they work in a lot of situations and characters, and are utterly gratuitous in others. Hearing George Carlin talk about profanity is like hearing a college professor give an intensely funny lecture on the subject…listening to Eddie Murphy use it can get a little old sometimes.
James! Thanks for the kudos, amigo. I LOVE your icon…huge Douglas Adams fan here.
Great insights…we all have to find our lines and where they are, and if you have to work harder to keep your values intact, then it probably makes you a better writer.
Brock! It was great having you on the show…you’re a man of conviction and morals, and sadly, I know that’s a rare thing in some ways. What I always appreciate the most about you is that you can have great, civil, and intelligent discussions on a controversial topic. That’s even rarer.
John S! Thanks for weighing in, sir! You obviously cross a lot of lines in your strip, but I love how thoughtful you are about it…very character and story oriented. If there’s no place for it in the storyline or the gag, it doesn’t go in. You’ve defined your lines…and it shows in your quality work. Just a different world from Brock’s…but it doesn’t diminish either!
Witmer! Great points about fatherhood. The playing field really DOES change, doesn’t it? I certainly want to raise my kids in a world where they can talk about sex, language and indeed, everything, but I’m not about to let them watch “Lethal Weapon 4″ any time soon. It’s all about setting limits and extending them as time goes by and they become ready for it. I know that if Katie runs up to me and drops and F-bomb, I’m not going to overreact…I’ll try to let her know that it’s not acceptable, and that it’s a word we don’t use…but not to freak out and give her something she knows upsets adults. Don’t arm your children with that sort of knowledge!
I guess it’s the old “does heavy metal/video games/cartoons/Bugs Bunny warp our kid’s minds” argument. I think kids are by and large a lot more adaptable and open to new ideas than we want to admit, but I also want my little girl to be a little girl for as long as she can. She’ll lose that innocence soon enough, I’m sure.